Was it a trap?


What happened on the Friday of the Assembly with regard to the Rev Maurice J Roberts in a sense overshadowed everything else, because of its unexpected nature and drastic consequences. In what follows we report the debate as fully as we can. We shall not comment at this stage because the matter is sub judice.

The Rev D Murray was about to present an Appeal when the Rev D Robertson intervened on a point of order. Rev D Robertson stated that he wanted some information and guidance. There was a cloud over the Assembly because of a threat issued by the FCDA on the Gaelic radio that morning. If it was true, it would affect the business of the Assembly including the current appeal by Mr Murray. He proceeded to question Rev D Murray asking him if it was true that the FCDA had said that if Assembly decisions did not go their way that day they would publish the libels, supporters would stop giving money to the Free Church and would instead put money into a legal fund to fight for Free Church property.
Rev D Murray replied that he had been at the Assembly all morning and that Mr Robertson had not approached him personally before raising the matter before the House. If the Assembly were to be consistent in procedure then the questions should be ruled out of order. He further said that as far as he knew there had been no meeting of the FCDA.
Rev D Robertson admitted that he had not approached Mr Murray in relation to the matter. He then asked again if the threat had been issued, as that was what had been reported on the radio that morning. He asked if Mr Murray and others of the FCDA would repudiate that threat.
Rev D Murray said that no threat had been made by the FCDA.
Mr Murray was then asked if he, as a member of the FCDA, disowned the report.
Rev D Murray said that he would like a little bit of sympathy at that point. He had not heard the radio report. It was difficult to think on the spot and he asked for the Assembly's permission to meet privately with Rev D Robertson to discuss the matter.
The Moderator responded that, if what was being reported was true, it ought to be made known to the Assembly at that point by an officer of the FCDA.
Mr J O Sutherland intervened to say that it was not fair “to pillory a young lad” and at that point it was suggested that the chairman of the FCDA be called to the Bar of Assembly.
Rev M Roberts said that he had made no threat.
Rev D Robertson asked about the report issued on the Gaelic radio that morning.
Rev M Roberts replied that he could honestly say that he had not said such a thing to the Press.
Rev D Robertson then asked if Mr Roberts denied that there were any plans on the part of the FCDA to take the Free Church of Scotland to court.
Rev M Roberts replied that there were no such plans.
Rev D Robertson asked if Mr Roberts could repudiate any such threat and asked if he would promise that the FCDA would not take the Free Church to court.
Rev M Roberts replied that it depended on what happened that day.
Rev D Robertson said it had been reported that morning that it would depend on what happened that day so there was an implied legal threat over the Court.
Rev M Roberts stated that what he was saying was that it remained to be seen.
Rev D Robertson said that the response was not a satisfactory one for an office-bearer in the Free Church and for one who had pledged not to follow divisive courses.
Rev M Roberts said that in the Assembly he had been faced with a situation of gross and irremediable wickedness and hypocrisy. He said he would have to take the consequences for whatever he had said.
The Moderator said that any office-bearer would have to submit himself willingly to the judgment of the court on any particular matter.
Rev M Roberts stated that he had been an office bearer for 30 years and a minister for 25 years and had always submitted. However, he had been faced with a situation of gross and irremediable wickedness.
The Moderator asked if he was accusing the Assembly of wickedness. If so, that was “totally unacceptable” and asked Mr Roberts if he wanted to withdraw his remarks.
Rev M Roberts declared that he had been a witness of hypocrisy and evil in the Assembly.
The Principal Clerk interrupted, “I think I’d better say something at this point”, and asked Mr Roberts, in view of the accusations he had made, “How can you continue as a minister of this Church”?
Rev D Robertson said it appeared that Mr Roberts had answered that there was a definite threat, and it was out of order. Any of the FCDA who wished to adhere to him would also be acting in contempt in threatening legal action. Mr Roberts should be censured by the Assembly. It was breathtaking that Mr Roberts would call the Assembly “hypocritical and evil”.
Rev D Robertson’s motion was presented after a brief adjournment (as given under Finding below).
Rev J A Gillies asked if as vice-chairman of the FCDA, he could be allowed to speak to the House at that point. He said that he was quite stunned with the developments in the last half hour. The reported broadcast respecting the FCDA’s intention was the first he had heard of it. There was no intention on the part of the FCDA to consider anything of the nature suggested. If in future times, there would be a constitutional departure from the practice of the Church then they didn’t know what would happen. They were not prophets. He asked for forbearance towards Mr Roberts who was under considerable stress because of the involvement of his own daughter in matters which had already been before the Assembly.
Rev W Macleod moved that the Assembly pass from the matter. The radio report was the first he had heard about it. Perhaps some had suggested it to the Press, but the matters had not been before any meeting. The FCDA did not and do not issue any threats to the Assembly. At the same time, they preserved their position as in 1900 and could never say there would never be a time, if the Church departed from its Constitution, when they would be forced to take legal action. As it stood at present, they had no intention of going down that road. He moved that the House pass from the matter.
Rev D Robertson said that protests had been made earlier that the Church had departed from its Constitution.
Rev W Macleod said that there were different degrees of departures from the Constitution. The Moderator interrupting said “You are accusing the Assembly of departing from its constitution. This is something that is very serious”.
Rev W Macleod said that they had made a dissent and protest and these matters would be reported on later. At that point in time they had not decided that the Free Church had departed from its constitution to such an extent that they would have to leave the Free Church or go down the road of any legal action.
Rev D Robertson replied that what was being stated was minimal. If the constitution was broken it was broken. He stated that his whole motion would fall if he (Mr Macleod) and the FCDA stated quite clearly that they did not intend to take the Free Church to court and if Mr Roberts withdrew his statement. An organised campaign by the FCDA had pushed them into a corner and they would have to say what they intended to do.
Rev W Macleod replied that as things were at that time they had no intention of going to court but he could not tell what the future held.
The Principal Clerk said that the Assembly could not pass from the Motion which was dealing with the allegation of contumacy in respect of what Mr Roberts said.
The Moderator agreed and said it was a very serious accusation against the Assembly.
Rev David Fraser said that he was conscious that they could be on the brink of dividing the Church and requested that Mr Roberts be asked to reconsider his statement, withdraw what was out of order and avoid the charge of contumacy.
Rev D Robertson asked if that was competent and what would happen if Mr Roberts refused. He did not see how Mr Fraser’s motion differed from his own.
The Moderator said it was a valid objection.
The Assembly was adjourned for a five minute break.
The Principal Clerk said that action had been taken before the Assembly and there must be something to follow on from that. If the motion was passed and Mr Roberts acted in accordance with the direction in the motion that would terminate the matter.
The Moderator stated that there was nothing in the motion that any office-bearer would not be very happy to agree with.
Rev W Macleod stated that he would like some way of providing a negative motion towards the present motion. He did not regard the action as contumacious.
The Moderator said that because of the seriousness of the matter he allowed some delay.
Principal Clerk said that he did not see how Mr Macleod could have a motion which would be competent.
The Moderator said that Rev D Robertson’s motion was to be the finding of the Assembly.
Rev M Roberts was called to the Bar of Assembly.
The Moderator addressed Mr Roberts and said he had to ask him to withdraw the statements and express profound regret for them.
Rev M Roberts asked the Moderator if, in so complex a matter, he would be permitted to read a statement.
The Principal Clerk intervened to say “The time for statements is over”.
Rev M Roberts then said “In my heart of hearts, I believe what I said is the truth. I implicate no one in that but myself”.

Findings
The General Assembly having heard in its presence Rev Maurice Roberts, being chairman of the FCDA, (1) acknowledge that legal action on the part of the FCDA against the Free Church was dependent on the outcome of today’s proceedings of the General Assembly and refuse to withdraw or repudiate the same, and (2) allege that the proceedings of this General Assembly which he had witnessed were characterised by gross and irremediable wickedness and hypocrisy, accordingly resolve that Rev Maurice Roberts has acted with gross contumacy, and hereby rebuke him for these actions. The General Assembly call upon him to withdraw these statements unreservedly and express profound regret. The General Assembly appoint a Committee which, if Mr Roberts fails to comply with this direction instanter, is instructed and empowered to prosecute a libel against him for contumacy before the Commission of Assembly to be appointed later in this sederunt.
Mr Roberts indicated he was not prepared to withdraw his statements.
The General Assembly accordingly appoint a Committee in terms of the foregoing resolution, consisting of: Rev J MacIver, Mr A MacKenzie, Rev J MacLean, Mr J Fraser (Convener), Dr I R MacDonald, Mr Angus N Morrison.

Any comments or questions please E-Mail me or Rev William Macleod the editor.

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